Announcer: COMING UP,
PETER WAS RADICALLY SAVED

WHILE WORKING
IN A NIGHTCLUB
AS A RAVE DJ.

>> YOU CAN LOOK
VERY, VERY SPIRITUAL,

YOU CAN SEEK
THE BIBLE,

YOU CAN PRAY INTENSELY
AND STILL BE REALLY MISSING

WHAT GOD IS DOING
ON THE PLANET.

Announcer:
NOW AS A PASTOR OF ONE
OF THE FASTEST GROWING AND

MOST YOUTHFUL MEGA CHURCHES
IN THE UNITED STATES,

PETER HAAS ENCOURAGES US
TO REMOVE OUR INNER PHARISEE

AND OTHER RELIGIOUSLY TRANSMITTED DISEASES
-- NEXT!

♪

James: THANK YOU A LOT.
I'M SO GLAD WE HAVE

THIS OPPORTUNITY TO SHARE
THIS TIME WITH YOU.

I'M JUST LAUGHING
BECAUSE I READ THIS BOOK.

IT WAS A SERIOUS BOOK.
IT MADE ME LAUGH.

MADE ME LAUGH
AND MADE ME CRY.

AS A MATTER OF FACT,
WHILE I WAS LAUGHING

I WAS CRYING I WAS LAUGHING
SO HARD AND YET

IT IS SIMPLY THE TRUTH.
I'M JAMES ROBISON, BY THE WAY.

THIS IS BETTY.
I'M TALKING ABOUT A BOOK,

I WANT YOU TO GET THIS TITLE,
PHARISECTOMY.

WE NEED A PHARISECTOMY.
DO YOU UNDERSTAND?

WELL, I WASN'T SURE
I UNDERSTOOD.

PHARISECTOMY...
AND HOW TO JOYFULLY

REMOVE YOUR INNER PHARISEE
AND OTHER RELIGIOUSLY

TRANSMITTED DISEASES.
I THOUGHT, MAN,

THIS GUY IS STRANGE.
SOMEBODY HANDED THIS TO ME

AT AN ASSOCIATION OF
RELATED CHURCHES CONFERENCE

AND I ACTUALLY GOT TO CLOSE
THE CONFERENCE,

SAID THE GOOD-BYE WORD.
WHEN I GOT THROUGH

EVERYBODY WANTED TO LEAVE.
AND HE WAS THERE

AND SOMEBODY GAVE ME THE BOOK
AND I GET SO MANY BOOKS.

AND I THOUGHT, I DON'T
HAVE TIME TO READ THAT.

I TOSSED IT OVER.
AND THE LORD SAID,

"PICK THAT UP!"
I SAID, "GOD, I'VE GOT

A LOT OF BOOKS TO READ."
[Laughter]

AND I PICKED IT UP
AND STARTED READING

AND IT ROUSED MY CURIOSITY.
ALL OF THE SUDDEN

I'M LAUGHING...
AND I'M CRYING,

I'M LAUGHING SO HARD.
IT'S AMAZING WHAT

PETER HAAS, PASTOR OF
SUBSTANCE CHURCH IN THE

MINNEAPOLIS/SAINT PAUL AREA
AND JUST HAS A LOT

OF DIFFERENT CHURCHES,
KIND OF LIKE

SATELLITE BRANCHES.
THEY COMMUNICATE,

AND THEY BRING A LOT
OF THE DRAMA AND ART

AND ALL THE THINGS THAT
THE CHURCH KIND OF LEFT UP

TO HOLLYWOOD AND THE WORLD;
LIKE WE GAVE THEM GOD'S PLANET

INSTEAD OF BEING OVERSEERS.
WE GAVE UP ANY OVERSIGHT

OF WHAT GOD ENTRUSTED TO US
TO OVERSEE; IT WAS LIKE,

"WE'RE GOING TO TAKE IT BACK."
HE'S A YOUNG GUY.

HE'S IN HIS 30S.
I TOLD HIM A WHILE AGO,

WE'VE GOT PETS OLDER THAN HIM.
WOULD YOU WELCOME PETER HAAS

TO LIFE TODAY?
PETER, IT'S GOOD TO SEE YOU.

I'VE GOT TO KNOW --
BY THE WAY,

THAT'S A SKINNY TIE --
THAT'S A SKINNY, SKINNY TIE.

Peter: THAT'S RIGHT,
REPRESENT.

James: YOU KNOW
I GOT DELIVERED FROM TIES

YEARS AGO.
WHEN YOU GET A LITTLE OLDER,

MAYBE YOU'LL GET DELIVERED.
I WANT TO KNOW BECAUSE I HEAR

YOU WERE A -- WHAT WERE YOU,
WHAT KIND OF DISK JOCKEY?

Peter: A RAVE DJ. YEP.
James: WHAT IS THAT?

Peter: WELL,
YOU KNOW TURNTABLES.

YOU REMEMBER TURNTABLES?
Betty: OH, YEAH.

DEFINITELY, WE REMEMBER THEM.
Peter: I'LL TELL YOU,

IT WAS FUNNY
BECAUSE I WOULD GO AROUND

AND THE RAVE SCENE,
IT WAS KIND OF

A BIG PARTY SCENE.
I STARTED SPINNING RECORDS

WHEN I WAS REALLY YOUNG,
AND AS YOU'D IMAGINE,

I WAS IN ALL SORTS
OF UNSAVORY PLACES

AS I GREW UP DOING THAT.
I WAS GOOD AT IT.

BELIEVE IT OR NOT,
I GAVE MY LIFE TO CHRIST

IN A NIGHTCLUB OF ALL PLACES.
I HAD DIFFERENT CHURCH

EXPERIENCES BUT I'M LIKE
BEEN THERE, DONE THAT,

I DON'T WANT ANYTHING
TO DO WITH CHURCH.

I HAD BEEN DEEJAYING --
AT THAT TIME IN MY LIFE

I WAS REALLY SEARCHING
BECAUSE THE GIRL I WAS DATING,

WHO IS NOW MY WIFE,
AND THIS IS KIND OF WHERE

THE STORY TURNS SERIOUS,
SHE FOUND HER FATHER'S BODY

AFTER HE HAD
COMMITTED SUICIDE.

THEN THAT SAME WEEK,
ONE OF MY GOOD FRIENDS DIED

IN A CAR ACCIDENT.
SO I WENT TO TWO FUNERALS

IN A WEEK.
AS A NON-BELIEVER,

IT REALLY SHOOK ME BECAUSE
I REALIZED LIFE IS FRAGILE.

I CAN'T PRETEND I UNDERSTAND
WHAT'S GOING ON HERE

BECAUSE I DON'T.
AND IT RATTLED ME

AND I KNEW I NEEDED TO START
ASKING DEEPER QUESTIONS.

AND YET, I THOUGHT,
I WANT TO KNOW WHO GOD IS

BUT I DON'T FEEL COMPATIBLE
WITH THAT WHOLE CHURCH THING.

YET, A FRIEND HAD ACTUALLY
CHALLENGED ME, "PETER,

YOU NEED TO ASK GOD
TO REVEAL HIMSELF TO YOU."

I THOUGHT,
THAT'S THE WEIRDEST THING

I'VE EVER HEARD.
BUT I'LL TELL YOU WHAT,

I WAS WORKING
IN A NIGHTCLUB ONE NIGHT

AND I REMEMBER LOOKING DOWN ON
-- I WAS LOOKING DOWN ON

THE DANCE FLOOR THINKING --
AND HALF OF THOSE PEOPLE

WERE DRUNK AND STONED
OUT OF THEIR MINDS,

AND I REMEMBER THINKING,
I HATE THIS.

I HATE LIFE.
I DON'T WANT TO LIVE ANYMORE.

THIS IS NOT LIVING.
WHAT AM I DOING?

AND ALL OF THE SUDDEN
THE THOUGHT CAME INTO MY HEAD,

PETER, ASK GOD
TO REVEAL HIMSELF TO YOU.

SO I'M LIKE ALL RIGHT...
ALL RIGHT.

I REMEMBER LOOKING UP
BECAUSE YOU JUST IMAGINE GOD

IS UP THERE SOMEWHERE.
[Laughter]

AND I LITERALLY PRAYED,
"GOD, IF YOU EXIST,

IF YOU CREATED THE UNIVERSE,
THEN YOU SHOULD BE

POWERFUL ENOUGH TO SHOW ME
WHAT RELIGION IS

THE RIGHT RELIGION.
I'M LIKE GIVE ME A SIGN.

I MEAN LIGHTNING BOLTS
ACROSS THE SKY

SPELLING IT OUT,
ISLAM, BUDDHISM,

NONE OF THE ABOVE."
YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING?

I WAS DESPERATE.
SO I PRAYED

THIS SUPER SINCERE PRAYER AND
I KIND OF SNAPPED OUT OF IT

AND I'M LIKE WHAT AM I DOING?
I'M PRAYING?

I THOUGHT,
"I NEED A CIGARETTE."

SO I PUT ON A MIX AND
I WALKED OUT OF THE DJ BOOTH

AND I WAS ONLY ABOUT 30 STEPS
AWAY FROM THE DJ BOOTH

AND A TOTAL STRANGER
CAME UP TO ME.

GRABBED ME BY THE ARM
AND ESSENTIALLY SAID,

"I KNOW THIS IS WEIRD BUT
JESUS HAS A PLAN FOR YOUR LIFE

AND HE WANTS YOU
TO FOLLOW HIM."

FREAKED ME OUT!
[Laughter]

BECAUSE I WAS SCARED
AT THIS POINT,

I LITERALLY WAS SWEATING.
I THINK I KIND OF GRABBED HIM

AND SAID, "WHAT DID YOU SAY?"
HE GAVE THIS REALLY AWKWARD

GOSPEL PRESENTATION
AND IT FELT LIKE THE WORDS

JUST JUMPED OUT OF MY MOUTH,
"TELL ME WHAT

I'M SUPPOSED TO DO.
I WILL DO ANYTHING

YOU TELL ME TO."
OF COURSE,

I'M SURE HE WAS THINKING,
IT SHOULDN'T BE THIS EASY.

[Laughter]
I'M LIKE, "TELL ME

WHAT I'M SUPPOSED TO DO."
HE'S LIKE, "AH, WE CAN PRAY."

I'M LIKE, "ALL RIGHT!"
[Laughter]

HE LITERALLY GRABBED MY HANDS,
PULLED ME RIGHT DOWN

INTO A NEARBY BOOTH
AND I REPEATED AND OLD SCHOOL

REPENTANCE PRAYER
AND THAT WAS IT.

I THINK I WEIRDED OUT
ALL OF MY FRIENDS AND FAMILY.

"PETE WENT FOR JESUS?
THAT'S THE WEIRDEST THING

EVER!"
AND THAT WAS IT;

I WAS SOLD OUT TO THE LORD.
SO FOR ME, EVEN AS A PASTOR,

IT'S ALL ABOUT PEOPLE
LIKE MYSELF

WHO WERE OPEN TO GOD
BUT WE JUST DIDN'T KNOW

HOW TO -- WE JUST FELT
INCOMPATIBLE WITH CHURCH.

I ALWAYS WANT TO REMIND
EVERYBODY AND EVEN

THE AUDIENCE HERE TODAY,
THAT THERE'S NOBODY THAT IS

BEYOND THE GRACE OF GOD.
I THINK THAT EVERYBODY HAS

THAT LOVED ONE
THAT THEY DON'T KNOW...

"GOD, CAN YOU REACH
THAT FAMILY MEMBER?"

I'LL TELL YOU, IF GOD
CAN COME TO MY NIGHTCLUB

AND IF HE CAN TURN
SAUL INTO PAUL, THE WRITER

OF THE NEW TESTAMENT,
I'LL TELL YOU WHAT,

GOD CAN REDEEM ANYONE.
I'M JUST AN EXAMPLE OF THAT.

James: SO YOU ENDED UP
PASTORING SHORTLY THEREAFTER?

TELL ME THE JOURNEY.
Peter: WELL, MY STORY

WAS CRAZY ENOUGH
WHERE I GET YANKED

INTO DIFFERENT PULPITS
JUST TO SHARE MY STORY.

I ENDED UP GOING ALMOST
IMMEDIATELY INTO MINISTRY,

PASTORED FOR ABOUT TEN YEARS
IN WISCONSIN THEN WE ENDED UP

MOVING TO MINNEAPOLIS
TO PLANT SUBSTANCE AND IT'S

BEEN KIND OF A WILD RIDE.
OUR WHOLE GOAL IN MINNEAPOLIS

WAS REALLY TO PLANT A CHURCH
THAT WOULD EXCLUSIVELY

REACH THE UNCHURCHED
AND REALLY GO OUT

OF OUR WAY TO DO IT.
GOD HAS REALLY BLESSED THAT

AND WE'VE BEEN FLOURISHING.
SO RIGHT NOW WE HAVE

FOUR LOCATIONS THROUGHOUT
MINNEAPOLIS/SAINT PAUL.

James: AND ALL OF THEM
ARE CALLED SUBSTANCE?

Peter: YES.
James: NOW YOU USE VIDEO

AND YOU DO USE THAT QUITE
EXTENSIVELY IN COMMUNICATING.

I'VE GOT TO ASK YOU
ABOUT THIS BOOK,

IT'S REALLY GOOD.
THE WEB SITE,

IF THEY WANT TO KNOW HOW
TO FIND OUT ABOUT THE CHURCH?

I WANT TO SAY GO ONLINE
TO YOUR WEB SITE.

CAN YOU SEND US THE BOOK?
IT'S IN THE BOOKSTORES

BUT WHAT'S THE WEB SITE?
Peter: PHARISECTOMY.COM

AND IF PHARISECTOMY
IS TOO MUCH TO SPELL

YOU CAN GO TO PETERHAAS.ORG
AND IT WILL LINK YOU THERE

AS WELL.
James: ONE OF THE PLACES

I LAUGHED A LOT --
AND I WANT TO ASK YOU

WHY YOU WROTE THE BOOK.
HAD YOU MET PEOPLE LIKE ME

MADE YOU WANT TO WRITE
ABOUT THE PHARISEES?

[Laughter]
BECAUSE I'VE REALLY NEVER

BEEN HIGH ON PHARISEES --
I'VE NEVER BEEN HIGH

ON PHARISEES, I'VE NEVER
BEEN HIGH ON RELIGION.

WE HAD BETHKE,
THE KID THAT WROTE THE POEM

THAT HE DID ON YOUTUBE
I THINK IT HAD 21 MILLION

HITS WHEN HE WAS HERE,
IT IS PROBABLY 50 MILLION

OR 100 AND HE WROTE ABOUT
NOT LIKING RELIGION

BUT LOVING JESUS.
Betty: WOULD YOU SAY

THAT PHARISEEISM IS A LOT
LIKE BEING QUOTE RELIGIOUS?

Peter: ABSOLUTELY!
WELL, I'LL TELL YOU...

Betty: BECAUSE I COULD BE
IN THAT RELIGIOUS COLUMN

IN THE FIRST OF MY LIFE.
James: BUT YOU WERE

NICE RELIGIOUS.
YOU WEREN'T LIKE

MOST PHARISEES.
Peter: I WOULD HIGHLY DOUBT

YOU WERE EVER A PHARISEE.
Betty: BUT RELIGIOUS.

Peter: THE TRUTH BE TOLD,
I THINK ALL OF US HAVE

AN INNER PHARISEE THAT
WE NEED TO BE DELIVERED FROM.

AFTER 2,000 YEARS
OF REALLY DEMONIZING

THE PHARISEE MOVEMENT,
I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE FORGET

THAT IT ORIGINALLY
WAS A REVIVAL OF GOD.

THIS WAS A MOVEMENT,
A BACK-TO-THE-BIBLE MOVEMENT;

THIS WAS A PRAYER MOVEMENT.
A LOT OF PHARISEES,

BELIEVE IT OR NOT,
WOULD MEMORIZE

THE ENTIRE PENTATEUCH,
THE WHOLE FIRST FIVE BOOKS

OF THE BIBLE.
THEY WOULD FAST

TWO 24-HOUR DAYS A WEEK.
THEY WOULD PRAY AND MEDITATE

FOR NINE HOURS A DAY
IN THREE THREE-HOUR SEGMENTS.

SO IF YOU TOOK THAT KIND
OF SELF DISCIPLINE,

I MEAN NOWADAYS WE WOULD CALL
THAT PERSON A SUPER CHRISTIAN;

RIGHT?
AND YET JESUS ACTUALLY WENT

AS FAR AS TO SAY
THEY'RE MISSING GOD,

WHICH IS A PRETTY
INTENSE THING TO SAY

TO THE PHARISEE MOVEMENT.
I'LL TELL YOU WHAT, YOU CAN

LOOK VERY, VERY SPIRITUAL,
YOU CAN SEEK THE BIBLE,

YOU CAN PRAY INTENSELY
AND STILL BE REALLY MISSING

WHAT GOD IS DOING
ON THE PLANET.

WHEN I STARTED STUDYING
THE PHARISEE MOVEMENT

I STARTED REALIZING
THERE IS A LOT OF PARALLELS

BETWEEN WHAT'S
ACTUALLY HAPPENING

WITH THE AMERICAN CHURCH
NOSEDIVING AND REALLY HOW THE

PHARISEE MOVEMENT CONTRASTED
WITH WHAT JESUS ADVOCATED

IN SCRIPTURES.
James: TELL US

HOW IT'S NOSEDIVING.
TELL US HOW IT IS BECAUSE

I KNOW THE CHURCH TODAY,
THE RELIGIOUS COMMUNITY,

WHETHER IT IS PROTESTANT
OR CATHOLIC,

WE IN THE RELIGIOUS COMMUNITY
AND THOSE WHO PROFESS

TO KNOW CHRIST PERSONALLY,
WHO BELIEVE IN A PERSONAL

RELATIONSHIP WITH JESUS,
THESE CHURCHES ARE GOING DOWN.

AND I FRANKLY BELIEVE
IT IS A SPIRIT OF RELIGION

AND IT IS LIKE A PHARISEE;
IT'S WHERE WE'VE SETTLED IN

AND THAT RIVER IS NOT FLOWING.
YOU HAVE TO WONDER

IF IT WAS EVER THERE
IN THE FIRST PLACE;

IF THERE WAS EVER
THAT SOMETHING INSIDE

THAT MADE ONE SAY,
"I CAN'T HELP BUT SPEAK THE

THINGS I'VE SEEN AND HEARD
BECAUSE I'VE ACTUALLY

SEEN AND HEARD,
I'VE EXPERIENCED SOMETHING

AND I CAN'T HOLD IT BACK."
IT'S LIKE

WE'VE JUST SETTLED IN,
WE'RE SMUG, SOMETIMES WE'RE

VERY JUDGMENTAL AND CRITICAL,
BUT THE CHURCH

IS REALLY DECLINING,
ESPECIALLY AMONG YOUNG PEOPLE.

IS THAT WHAT
YOU WERE REFERENCING?

Peter: ABSOLUTELY!
IN FACT, 40-46% OF AMERICANS

CLAIM TO GO TO A CHURCH
BUT ONLY ABOUT 14-20%

WILL ATTEND
MAYBE CHRISTMAS AND EASTER.

BUT THE PEOPLE THAT
ACTUALLY ATTEND WEEKLY,

CHARISMATIC OR EVANGELICAL
CHURCH PARTICULARLY,

ONLY 9.1% OF AMERICANS
WEEKLY GO TO AN EVANGELICAL

CHURCH OF ANY KIND,
A BIBLE-BELIEVING

EVANGELICAL CHURCH,
AND THE VAST MAJORITY

OF THAT 9.1%
ARE BABY BOOMERS OR OLDER.

SO REALLY,
EVEN IN THE UNITED STATES,

THERE'S NOT BEEN
A SINGLE STATE IN THE U.S.

SINCE 1990 WHERE
EVANGELICAL CHURCH GROWTH

EVEN KEPT UP WITH
POPULATION GROWTH.

AND SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT
A 22-YEAR STALL OUT

FOR THE AMERICAN CHURCH.
ALTHOUGH THERE'S GROWTH,

IT'S NOT EVEN KEEPING UP
WITH POPULATION GROWTH.

PARTICULARLY IN THE UNDER 40,
THE ODDS OF A PERSON

IN AMERICA UNDER 40
GOING TO CHURCH

IS PROBABLY ACTUALLY LESS,
RESEARCHERS ARE FINDING,

LESS THAN 3%
WOULD GO ON A WEEKLY BASIS.

SO WE'RE PRETTY MUCH SEEING
AN ENTIRE GENERATION

GIVING UP ON CHURCH.
AND YET, THE FUNNY THING IS,

THE RESEARCH SHOWS
THEY'RE NOT CLOSED TO JESUS,

THEY'RE NOT CLOSED TO GOD,
THEY'RE JUST FINDING

THEMSELVES INCOMPATIBLE
WITH CHURCH.

AND WHY IS THAT?
AND SO THAT'S WHAT

I'M EXPLORING IN THE BOOK.
James: WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT

GETTING RID OF THE PHARISEE
IN US, GIVE US SOME EXAMPLES.

Peter: WELL, FOR EXAMPLE,
I ALWAYS TELL PEOPLE,

THE BIBLE ISN'T
A LIST OF REQUIREMENTS;

IT'S A LIST OF RESULTS
AFTER EXPERIENCING GOD'S LOVE.

AND IT IS IMPORTANT
THAT PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THAT.

CHRISTIANITY ISN'T A PROCESS
OF EARNING GOD'S LOVE;

IT'S A PROCESS OF
REFLECTING GOD'S LOVE.

RIGHTEOUSNESS IS NOT THE
REWARD FOR LIVING RIGHTLY;

IT'S THE GIFT
THAT RESULTS IN RIGHT LIVING.

NOW SEE, I JUST SPATTERED OFF
A FEW LITTLE ONE-LINERS

THAT HELP INSTIGATE
THE FOUNDATIONS

OF BIBLICAL CHRISTIANITY
BUT THERE ARE

SO MANY CHRISTIANS,
THEY WALK AROUND WITH GUILT

AND GUILT IS A SYMPTOM
OF A DEEPER DISEASE

THAT REALLY SHOWS
THAT WE DO LIVE A LITTLE BIT

MORE LIKE THE PHARISEES STILL.
GUILT IS A SIGN THAT

"I THINK I CAN DO IT."
JUST LIKE IN THE BOOK,

I KIND OF REFERENCED
THIS FUNNY LITTLE THING ABOUT

MARILYN MONROE'S ESTATE SALE.
MARILYN MONROE, THEY WERE

SELLING ALL THIS JUNK
THAT MARILYN MONROE HAD

AT SOME POINT IN HER LIFE
AND PEOPLE WERE --

IT WAS LIKE PEOPLE WERE
JUST THROWING AWAY MONEY

ON LIKE KLEENEXES
AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE.

SOMEBODY PAID LITERALLY
THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS

FOR HER CREAKY OLD DOORKNOB.
I THOUGHT, WHAT ARE YOU

GOING TO DO WITH A DOORKNOB?
HOW DO YOU EVEN SHOWCASE THAT

IN YOUR HOUSE?
-- NEXT TO YOUR CELEBRITY

GUMBALL COLLECTION?
LIKE WHAT DO YOU DO

WITH A DOORKNOB?
AND YET, REALLY THE DOORKNOB

HAD NO INTRINSIC VALUE.
THE ONLY VALUE IT HAD IS THAT

MARILYN MONROE HAD TOUCHED IT.
REALLY, IT'S NO DIFFERENT

FOR US IN CHRIST.
THE ONLY VALUE WE HAVE

IN CHRIST, THE ONLY REASON
WHY WE'RE ABLE TO STAND

BEFORE GOD JUSTIFIED,
TO GAIN ACCESS TO HEAVEN

IS BECAUSE CHRIST TOUCHED US.
AND YET, I THINK THERE IS

A LOT OF CHRISTIANS
WHO KIND OF STRUT AROUND

AND BE LIKE, "BUT WAIT,
I'M A GREAT DOORKNOB.

I'M LIKE -- GOD, LOOK AT ME!
I PRAYED FOR AN HOUR TODAY.

I READ MY BIBLE AN HOUR A DAY.
I GO TO A CHURCH THAT HAS

THREE-HOUR CHURCH SERVICES.
GOD, I'M AN AMAZING DOORKNOB."

AS IF GOD IS UP IN HEAVEN
LIKE, "WOW!

LOOK AT THAT DOORKNOB!
I HAVEN'T EVEN TOUCHED IT

AND YET IT'S GOT
TO BE WORTH THOUSANDS!"

[Laughter]
A LOT OF CHRISTIANS

ACT LIKE THAT.
IT REALLY SHOWS THAT WE'RE

MISSING THE VERY FOUNDATIONS
OF BIBLICAL CHRISTIANITY.

SO THAT'S KIND OF ONE
OF THE ISSUES I ADDRESS.

James: DO PHARISEES SAY,
"LOOK AT ME,"

INSTEAD OF "LOOK AT HIM"?
Peter: THEY'LL SAY THAT AND

THEY'LL ALSO REDUCE CHURCH
INTO A FORMULA

THAT THEY BELIEVE GOD LOVES
MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE.

SO FOR EXAMPLE,
ONE OF THE CLASSIC BEHAVIORS

OF A PHARISEE IS
WHAT I LIKE TO CALL

"HEDGE MAKING."
IN HEDGE MAKING, IT IS --

FOR EXAMPLE, PHARISEES WANT
TO OBEY THE SABBATH.

IT WAS A MOTIVE THAT WAS GOOD.
LET'S OBEY THE SABBATH.

LET'S RADICALLY OBEY
THE SABBATH.

SO WHAT THEY DID WAS
THEY CREATED

OVER 100 ADDITIONAL RULES
BEYOND SCRIPTURE

TO GUARANTEE THAT PEOPLE
WOULD OBEY THE SABBATH.

AGAIN, IT WAS
A PROTECTIVE BUFFER.

James: IT SOUNDS LIKE
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

[Laughter]
SOUNDS JUST AS DEAD.

IT'S A STINKING PRISON.
Peter: BUT REALLY,

AND THE MOTIVE
IS TO PROTECT PEOPLE

BUT IN THE END
IT ENSLAVES PEOPLE.

THAT'S THE VERY REASON WHY
THEY MISSED THE SON OF GOD

ON EARTH IS BECAUSE JESUS
DIDN'T FIT THE SPIRITUAL

FORMULA THAT THEY CREATED.
WELL, GUESS WHAT?

AMERICAN CHURCHES CREATE ALL
SORTS OF SPIRITUAL FORMULAS.

WE CREATE IDOLATROUS FORMULAS
FOR CHURCH SERVICES.

I THINK ABOUT LIKE
HOW MANY TIMES AS A PASTOR

PEOPLE HAVE SAID, "YOU DON'T
VALUE THE HOLY SPIRIT

IF YOU DON'T DO AT LEAST
AN HOUR WORTH OF SONGS

ON SUNDAY MORNING."
OR "IF YOU DON'T DO AN

HOUR LONG EXPOSITORY MESSAGE
ON THE BOOK OF LEVITICUS

THEN YOU DON'T PREACH
GOD'S WORD."

THEY HAVE A FORMULA
AS TO HOW CHURCH NEEDS TO BE.

THE FUNNY THING IS
I THINK ABOUT

LIKE EVEN WORSHIP.
MUSIC WASN'T EVEN

THE CENTRAL DRIVING FORCE
OF CHURCH SERVICES

UNTIL THE 1700'S,
UNTIL THE MORAVIANS,

UNTIL CHARLES WESLEY
MAINSTREAMED THAT AND YET,

NOW THE MUSIC IS
THE VERY LITMUS TEST

AS TO WHETHER OR NOT
THE HOLY SPIRIT EVEN

VISITS A CHURCH.
[Laughing]

AND DOING THEIR OWN --
I'M ALL FOR WORSHIP,

I LOVE WORSHIP
BUT UNCHURCHED PEOPLE

WILL COME INTO THE CHURCH
AND THEY SEE

THOSE 100 ADDITIONAL RULES
FOR THE SABBATH AND TO THEM,

IT'S ALMOST LIKE WE'RE
STUFFING BIG CHUNKS OF STEAK

DOWN A BABY'S MOUTH.
THEY DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY

TO DIGEST IT AND THEN
THEY THINK I'M JUST NOT

CUT OUT FOR CHRISTIANITY
SO THEY LEAVE.

THAT'S WHAT'S HAPPENING.
James: WHEN YOU TRY

TO PUT PEOPLE IN THAT HEDGE,
THAT CAGE, IT'S LIKE

KEEPING YOUR CHILDREN
IN A SAFE FENCED YARD

ALL THEIR LIFE
RATHER THAN TEACHING THEM

HOW TO LIVE BEYOND
THE BOUNDARIES WITH WISDOM

SO THAT THEY KNOW
THE SAFETY AND SECURITY IS

THE SHADOW OF THE ALMIGHTY,
NOT THE SECURITY OF THE FENCE

OR THE HEDGES.
AND WHEN YOU TRY TO PUT PEOPLE

IN THE HEDGE YOU END UP
PUTTING GOD IN A BOX

AND HEAVEN AND EARTH
CAN'T CONTAIN HIM.

YOU'RE SURE NOT GOING
TO GET HIM IN A BOX.

WE TRY TO STUFF HIM
IN RELIGIOUS BOXES

AND WE BECOME LIKE PHARISEES
AND WE'RE KILLING THE RELEASE

OF THE SPIRIT OF GOD.
I'M SO PROUD OF YOU, PETER,

AND I DON'T WANT ANY PART
OF THE PHARISEEISM IN US

AND THAT'S WHY I ENJOYED
YOUR BOOK SO MUCH.

THERE AGAIN IS THE WEB SITE.
IT'S IN THE BOOKSTORES.

WOULD YOU JUST SAY THANKS
TO PETER HAAS FOR JUST BEING

SO OPEN AND SO REAL
AND HE'S GOING

TO HELP ALL OF US.
I'M TELLING YOU --

I HAD A GREAT CHURCH LEADER
TELL ME RECENTLY,

I'M SO SICK AND TIRED
OF ALL THE CHURCH BULLIES

AND ALL THE PEOPLE
WHO INTIMIDATE

AND THEN TRY TO MANIPULATE.
THAT'S WHAT PHARISEES DO.

THEY INTIMIDATE,
THEY MANIPULATE

AND THEY END UP --
AND PROBABLY, PEOPLE TRYING

TO SINCERELY HELP,
WE END UP CAGING PEOPLE.

THAT'S WHY A LOT OF CHURCHES
LOOK LIKE A PRISON GANG

WHEN THEY MARCH IN,
THERE'S NO LIBERTY,

THERE'S NO LIFE.
AND YOU DON'T MEASURE LIBERTY,

JUST LIKE HE SAID,
BY HOW LOUD THE BAND IS,

HOW MANY DRUMS THEY'VE GOT,
HOW MUCH NOISE THEY MAKE.

IT COULD BE QUIET.
BE REAL CAREFUL WALKING IN

THE SPIRIT OF GOD SHOWS UP
IN ALL KINDS OF PLACES.

I REALLY DO APPRECIATE YOU.
I HOPE OUR VIEWERS

WILL GET THE BOOK.
PETER, WE'RE DOING SOMETHING

THAT'S REALLY NICE
AND THAT'S GIVING SHOES

AND SMILES FOR CHRISTMAS.
I WANT YOU TO WATCH THIS.

YOU'RE GOING TO LIKE THIS.
I PROMISE YOU, YOU'RE GOING

TO WANT TO HAVE A PART
IN WHAT WE'RE SHOWING YOU.

YOU'RE GOING TO BE EXCITED
ABOUT IT.

Announcer: UNFORTUNATELY,
THERE ARE CHILDREN
AROUND THE WORLD

WHO HAVE MANY DIFFERENT
KINDS OF NEEDS.

SOME ARE HUNGRY
AND THIRSTY,

IN NEED OF FOOD TO EAT
OR CLEAN WATER TO DRINK.

OTHERS STILL
SIMPLY HAVE NEVER HAD
A NEW PAIR OF SHOES

OR THEY'RE UNABLE TO SMILE
DUE TO A CLEFT PALATE.

>> ALL YEAR LONG
WE COME TO YOU

AND TELL YOU ABOUT THINGS
THAT CHANGE PEOPLE'S LIVES,

THAT SAVE
PEOPLE'S LIVES

AND YOU'RE
A PART OF THAT.

I WANT TO TELL YOU
WHAT WE WANT TO DO
THIS CHRISTMAS,

IS WE DO WHAT IS CALLED
"SHOES AND SMILES."

A LITTLE CHILD JUST LIKE THIS THAT HAS A CLEFT PALATE,

THAT'S NEVER HAD
A REAL SMILE,

WE GIVE THEM SURGERY
AND THIS LITTLE CHILD
WILL HAVE A NEW SMILE.

LITTLE KIDS LIKE THIS
THAT HAVE NEVER HAD

A PAIR OF SHOES BEFORE
IN THEIR LIFE,

WE GIVE THEM ONE.

Announcer:
A CHILD WITH BARE FEET
MAY SEEM HARMLESS

BUT THE POTENTIAL DANGER
FOR CHILDREN LIVING IN
THESE TYPES OF CONDITIONS

CAN BE
LIFE-THREATENING.

James:
ONE OF THE THINGS WE FOUND IN
THE CENTRAL AMERICAN COUNTRIES

IS THAT THEY HAVE A REAL
PROBLEM WITH HOOKWORMS,

WHICH THEY GET FROM
WALKING IN DIRT OR SAND,

THEN IT CREATES A TREMENDOUS
INTESTINAL PROBLEM.

THE ANSWER
IS JUST SHOES.

WE CAN PROVIDE LITERALLY
FOR SOME OF THEM

THE FIRST PAIR OF SHOES
THEY'VE EVER HAD,

NOT ONLY FOR FUN AND COMFORT,
BUT FOR HEALTH.

Announcer: DURING THE PAST SEVERAL HOLIDAY SEASONS,

LIFE Outreach
AND ITS MISSIONARY PARTNERS

HAVE PASSED OUT THOUSANDS
OF PAIRS OF SHOES TO CHILDREN

IN MANY DIFFERENT COUNTRIES
AROUND THE WORLD.

IN ADDITION,
WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO RESTORE
NUMEROUS CHILDREN'S SMILES

THROUGH CORRECTIVE
SURGERIES.

>> WE PUT SMILES ON THE FACES
OF THESE CHILDREN TODAY

AS WE'VE GIVEN THEM SHOES

BUT OTHERS NEED
A LITTLE MORE,

THEY NEED THAT
CLEFT PALATE SURGERY.

I HOPE YOU CAN HELP PUT A SMILE ON EVEN MORE CHILDREN'S FACES.

DO THE BEST
THAT YOU CAN

AND YOU CAN GIVE SHOES
AND SMILES TO CHILDREN
ALL OVER THE WORLD.

SO I HAVE A SPECIAL MESSAGE
JUST FOR YOU --

James: YOU LIKE THAT?
Betty: I LOVE IT!

AND IT'S SO...
IT'S SO EXCITING TO THINK

THAT SOME OF THESE CHILDREN
FOR THE VERY FIRST TIME

THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE
THEIR FIRST PAIR OF SHOES.

THEY MAY LOOK AT IT
AND SAY, "OH, GOOD!

I'VE GOT SOMETHING
TO PUT ON MY FEET."

BUT I LOOK AT IT AS A MOTHER
AND GRANDMOTHER SAYING

IT'S GOING TO HELP PROTECT
THEIR FEET FROM ALL THE

DISEASE THAT CAN COME FROM
WALKING AROUND BAREFOOTED.

AND THEN, JAMES, JUST
TO THINK ABOUT THE SMILES;

I KNOW HOW EXCITED WE WERE
AS YOUNG PARENTS

FOR OUR FIRSTBORN
TO BE ABLE TO SMILE BACK

AT HER MOM AND DAD.
SOME OF THESE LITTLE CHILDREN

HAVE NEVER BEEN ABLE TO SMILE
BECAUSE THEY CAN'T AND WE

CAN MAKE THAT DIFFERENCE.
James: WHEN I LOOK AT THE

CHILDREN MY MIND RIGHT NOW
IS RACING BACK AT THE IMAGES.

THE CHILDREN ARE DANCING
AND THEY'RE SO EXCITED AND

THEY'RE SO HAPPY BUT I ALSO
SAW THE LITTLE CHILDREN THERE

WITH THEIR LITTLE CLEFT PALATE
AND THEY WERE STANDING THERE

BY THE OTHER CHILDREN AND
I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU SEE THEM.

I KIND OF HAVE AN IDEA
WE IDENTIFY.

I DON'T THINK YOU LOOK
AT THEM AND THOUGHT THAT

THEY WEREN'T PRETTY TOO.
I THINK YOU THOUGHT

THEY WERE BEAUTIFUL TOO.
BUT I THINK YOU WOULD LIKE

FOR THEM TO SMILE TOO.
I DON'T KNOW HOW OFTEN

THEY MIGHT NOT FEEL PRETTY.
YOU KNOW BEING DIFFERENT,

JUST FEELING DIFFERENT IS ONE
OF THE BIG CHALLENGES WE HAVE

IN THE WORLD...
LEFT OUT, DIFFERENT.

WE CAN CORRECT THAT.
LOVE IS THE MOST AWESOME FORCE

ON THE EARTH, IT NEVER FAILS.
I WANT TO ASK YOU TO REACH OUT

AND TOUCH SOMEONE TODAY
WITH LOVE.

I WANT TO ASK YOU TO DIAL
THAT TELEPHONE NUMBER.

IF YOUR HEART WAS BROKEN
RIGHT NOW, AND YOU SAID,

"I REALLY NEED SOMEONE TO
PRAY WITH ME, I'M HURTING,"

YOU'LL BE LIKE
THE THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE

THAT CALL EVERY DAY BECAUSE
THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE

WHO CALL EVERY DAY, 70-80%
OF THEM, IT'S STILL PEOPLE

CALLING TO SAY, "I NEED
SOMEONE TO PRAY WITH ME."

HERE DURING OUR LAST WEEK OF
THE SHOES AND SMILES EMPHASIS,

THE CHRISTMAS SPECIAL GIFT
WE WANT TO MAKE,

WE WANT TO ASK YOU
TO REACH OUT IN LOVE

AND DIAL THAT NUMBER AND SAY,
"HERE IS MY GIFT

TO PROVIDE SHOES."
WE WANT TO PROVIDE 200,000

CHILDREN A PAIR OF SHOES.
AND WE WANT TO GIVE

AS MANY AS WE CAN A SMILE;
THE SURGERIES COST $500.

WE'RE ASKING YOU VERY DIRECTLY
IF YOU COULD GIVE $1,000,

TWO SURGERIES;
COULD YOU DO THAT?

WE'RE SENDING THE BEAUTIFUL
"LION AND THE LAMB" BRONZE.

IT'S A COLLECTIBLE,
IT'S AN ART PIECE.

YOU DON'T GIVE TO GET.
WE GIVE TO YOU TO BLESS.

AND THESE ARTISTS SAY
WE WANT TO BLESS THE PEOPLE

WHO HELP YOU BLESS OTHERS.
SO WE WANT TO SEND THAT

IF YOU'LL HELP US
PROVIDE THOSE SMILES.

THEN THE SHOES, $36,
TEN CHILDREN HAVE SHOES;

THEY'RE $3.60 A PAIR.
$72 WE'VE GOT 20.

$144 WE'VE GOT
40 PAIRS OF SHOES.

WHATEVER YOU CAN DO, WE'RE
ASKING YOU TO MAKE THAT GIFT.

REACH OUT AND DIAL THE NUMBER.
TAKE YOUR BANKCARD,

USE IT LIKE A CHECK.
IF YOU WRITE A CHECK,

CALL US AND TELL US
WHAT YOU'RE MAILING.

YOU CAN GO TO LifeToday.org
AND MAKE YOUR GIFT.

WE'RE GOING TO SEND YOU
OUR SON, RANDY'S, BOOK:

GOD WANTS YOU TO BE HAPPY.
WE WILL SEND YOU THE BEAUTIFUL

LITTLE CHRISTMAS ORNAMENT,
THE LITTLE SHOE.

EVERY TIME YOU LOOK AT IT
THINK ABOUT THOSE KIDS SMILING

RIGHT NOW, AROUND CHRISTMAS
BECAUSE WE GAVE THEM SHOES.

PLEASE MAKE THAT GIFT.
PLEASE MAKE THAT CALL.

IF YOU WRITE A CHECK,
LET US KNOW YOU'RE PUTTING IT

IN THE MAIL.
CALL AND TELL US WHAT IT IS!

THANK YOU FOR DOING IT.

Announcer:
POVERTY IS A KILLER

AND BECAUSE OF IT
CHILDREN NEEDLESSLY SUFFER,

NOT ONLY FROM A LACK
OF FOOD AND CLEAN WATER,

BUT ALSO FROM A LACK OF THINGS
WE TAKE FOR GRANTED

SUCH AS A HEALTHY SMILE
OR A SIMPLE PAIR OF SHOES.

FOR MOST OF
THESE CHILDREN,

THEY'VE NEVER OWNED
A NEW PAIR OF SHOES

AND WHILE THAT MAY SEEM MINOR
IN LIGHT OF ALL THEIR NEEDS,

WALKING WITH BARE FEET
PUTS THEM AT RISK

OF LIFE-THREATENING INFECTIONS
THAT COULD LEAD

TO CRIPPLING CONSEQUENCES,
DISEASE, AND EVEN DEATH.

BY RESPONDING TODAY, YOU CAN
HELP LIFE IMMEDIATELY SECURE

AND BEGIN SHIPPING CHRISTMAS
SHOES TO 200,000 CHILDREN

AROUND THE WORLD
JUST IN TIME FOR THE HOLIDAYS.

YOUR GIFT OF $36
WILL PROVIDE
TEN PAIRS OF SHOES.

A GIFT OF $72
WILL PROVIDE 20 PAIR

AND A GIFT OF $144
WILL HELP PROVIDE 40 PAIRS

OF CHRISTMAS SHOES
FOR CHILDREN IN NEED.

IN APPRECIATION OF YOUR GIFT,
BE SURE TO REQUEST

THE INSPIRATIONAL NEW BOOK,
GOD WANTS YOU TO BE HAPPY

BY JAMES AND BETTY'S SON,
RANDY ROBISON.

WITH YOUR GIFT OF $100 TO HELP
PROVIDE 28 PAIRS OF SHOES,

YOU MAY REQUEST THE BEAUTIFULLY
CRAFTED SHOE ORNAMENT

TO PLACE ON YOUR TREE
EACH CHRISTMAS.

FINALLY, PLEASE CONSIDER
A GIFT OF $1,000 OR MORE

TO HELP PROVIDE
TWO CHILDREN WITH CORRECTIVE
CLEFT PALATE SURGERIES

AND YOU MAY REQUEST "THE LION
AND THE LAMB" BRONZE SCULPTURE.

THIS IS THE LAST WEEK!
PLEASE CALL, WRITE, OR MAKE
YOUR GIFT ONLINE TODAY.

James: I JUST WANT TO SAY
THANK YOU VERY, VERY MUCH

FOR HELPING US GIVE SHOES.
BY THE WAY,

WE'RE OFFERING RANDY'S BOOK.
I'LL TELL YOU WHAT WE'LL DO,

WE'LL SEND YOU PETER'S BOOK,
PHARISECTOMY TODAY TOO.

AND IF YOU HELP US TODAY,
THIS LAST WEEK --

YOU'RE GOING TO LIKE THIS --
YOU'RE GOING TO SMILE.

YOU GET OVER HERE TO THIS PAGE
THAT SAYS, "A RIVER DANCE

HAVING A STROKE."
YOU'RE GOING TO LAUGH

UNTIL YOU CRY.
BE SURE AND GET IT.

HELP US GIVE
THE SHOES AND SMILES.

WOULD YOU SAY THANKS
TO PETER HAAS AGAIN.

APPRECIATE YOU, BUDDY!
GOD BLESS YOU.

GOD BLESS SUBSTANCE.
THE CHURCH IS SUBSTANCE,

MINNEAPOLIS/SAINT PAUL.
CHECK THEM OUT.

LOVE YOU!
THANK YOU FOR HELPING US

LOVE OTHERS.

♪

♪

Announcer: FAITH, FAMILY,
AND FREEDOM ARE UNDER ATTACK.

JAMES ROBISON AND JAY RICHARDS ENCOURAGE A DIVIDED AMERICA

TO STAND TOGETHER
BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE.

INDIVISIBLE --
NOW AVAILABLE IN PAPERBACK

AT ONLINE
AND RETAIL BOOKSTORES.

Beth:
YOU KNOW WHAT?

IF WE DON'T HAVE ANY TIME,
WE DON'T HAVE ANY TREASURE!

Announcer:
TAKING YOUR TREASURE BACK...

TOMORROW
ON LIFE TODAY!