CAN'T LOVE JESUS AND MISTREAT HIS BRIDE.

Announcer: NEXT ON LIFE TODAY,

HAVE YOU OR SOMEBODY YOU KNOW BEEN HURT BY THE CHURCH?

FORTY PERCENT OF THE PEOPLE

THAT WE CALL "UNCHURCHED" IN AMERICA

ARE ACTUALLY EMBITTERED EX-CHURCH.

WE CAN'T REALLY SAY WE'RE LOVING JESUS IF WE HATE HIS BRIDE.

A LOT OF PEOPLE OUT THERE, BECAUSE OF OFFENSES,

THEY HATE THE BRIDE OF CHRIST AND WE CAN'T DO THAT.

Announcer: HEALING YOUR CHURCH HURT

WITH BEST-SELLING AUTHOR STEPHEN MANSFIELD -- NEXT!

Betty: THANK YOU SO MUCH

FOR JOINING US ON LIFE TODAY!

I'M BETTY AND THIS IS JAMES.

James: I WONDER

HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE

EVER BEEN HURT IN CHURCH

OR WHETHER YOU FEEL LIKE

YOU'VE BEEN HURT BY CHURCH.

I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY

IN THE AUDIENCE

GOT DISAPPOINTED IN CHURCH,

SOMEBODY HURT YOU SOME WAY.

SOMETIMES IT IS VERY

DIFFICULT TO GET OVER.

I KNOW A LOT OF PASTORS

HAVE BEEN HURT.

I KNOW A LOT OF CHURCH FOLKS

HAVE BEEN HURT.

THERE WERE TIMES WHEN

I WAS HURT BY CHURCH PEOPLE.

TO BE VERY FRANK WITH YOU,

THE GRACE AND LOVE

AND FORGIVENESS

THAT GOD FILLED ME WITH

TOWARD THOSE WHO FALSELY

REPRESENTED ME OR ACCUSED ME

OR EVEN ATTACKED ME,

THE LOVE WAS SO GREAT

THAT I ACTUALLY FOUND MYSELF

LOOKING WITHIN TO SEE

IF THERE WAS ANY WAY

THAT I HAD INAPPROPRIATELY

EXPRESSED WHAT WAS GOING ON

IN THE DYNAMIC

OF MY SPIRITUAL JOURNEY

THAT COULD HAVE BEEN

SO MISUNDERSTOOD

THAT IT CAUSED THEM

UNNECESSARY GRIEF.

I REALLY DID A LOT

OF SOUL SEARCHING MYSELF.

IN OTHER WORDS,

WHAT I'M SAYING IS

I DIDN'T ALLOW

THE RESENTMENT AND THE HURT

TO PULL ME DOWN AND KEEP ME

FROM BEING ABLE

TO BLESS OTHERS.

I THINK IT IS VERY CRITICAL

THAT WE FIND THAT HEALING

FROM CHURCH HURT.

AND MY FRIEND,

STEPHEN MANSFIELD WHO IS A

NEW YORK BEST-SELLING AUTHOR,

HE WROTE A GREAT BIOGRAPHY

ON CHURCHILL, NEVER GIVE IN!

NEVER! NEVER!

NEVER GIVE IN!

WHAT A GREAT STATESMAN!

HE WROTE THE FAITH

OF GEORGE W. BUSH,

THE FAITH OF BARACK OBAMA.

HE IS A VERY GIFTED WRITER.

HE HAS WRITTEN THIS BOOK,

HEALING YOUR CHURCH HURT.

WHAT TO DO

WHEN YOU STILL LOVE GOD

BUT YOU'VE BEEN WOUNDED

IN SOME WAY BY HIS PEOPLE.

IT MAY BE BY A PREACHER

OR YOU'RE A PREACHER

THAT'S BEEN WOUNDED.

WOULD YOU WELCOME

STEPHEN MANSFIELD

TO LIFE TODAY?

STEPHEN, IT'S GOOD TO SEE YOU.

REALLY GOOD TO HAVE YOU.

Stephen: THANK YOU.

GREAT TO BE WITH YOU.

James: WHY DID YOU WRITE THIS?

YOU'RE A WRITER;

YOU'VE GOT A FORWARD BY

GEORGE BARNA WHO DOES FABULOUS

RESEARCH, SO OBVIOUSLY,

YOU CAME UP WITH SOME REAL

SOUND CONCLUSIONS THAT

THIS IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM.

IT ISN'T JUST SOMETHING

THAT HIT YOU.

WHAT LED YOU TO IT?

WHERE DID IT START?

Stephen: WELL, I HAD

FAIRLY MINOR CHURCH HURT

BUT IT STUNG SO MUCH

AND IT MADE ME SO AWARE OF

WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE WORLD

WHEN IT COMES TO CHURCH HURT

THAT IT LAUNCHED ME

INTO THE BOOK.

I WAS THE PASTOR OF A PRETTY

LARGE CHURCH IN NASHVILLE,

THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE.

AND I'D HAD A ROCKY MARRIAGE

DURING ALL THE 20 YEARS

OF MY PASTORAL MINISTRY.

FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS,

WHEN I WAS OUT OF THE COUNTRY,

MY WIFE AT THE TIME

FILED FOR DIVORCE, CAME BACK,

I RESIGNED THE CHURCH TO WORK

ON THE MARRIAGE, AND THINGS

JUST GOT MISHANDLED.

SO IT WASN'T THE TYPICAL THING

THAT HAPPENS

WITH A SENIOR PASTOR.

PEOPLE SUSPECT ALL KINDS

OF THINGS BUT IT WAS JUST

A MARITAL PROBLEM THAT NEEDED

TO BE TENDED AND I RESIGNED.

ONCE I RESIGNED THINGS GOT

MISHANDLED AND IT MADE IT

LOOK LIKE THINGS WERE MUCH

WORSE THAN THEY WERE.

I WASN'T JUST LEAVING

TO TEND TO MARRIAGE.

WHEN YOU HEAR THAT

A SENIOR PASTOR OF A CHURCH

OF 4,000-5,000 HAS LEFT AND

THERE'S NOT MUCH BEING SAID

ABOUT IT YOU ASSUME

ALL THE BIGGIES; RIGHT?

"HE'S STEALING THE MONEY."

"HE'S HAVING AN AFFAIR,"

SOMETHING.

AND NONE OF THAT WAS TRUE

BUT THE ISSUE WAS THAT

HERE I WAS BEING SPOKEN OF

AS THOUGH SOMETHING

HORRIBLE HAD HAPPENED.

HERE I WAS BEING SORT OF

VILIFIED A LITTLE BIT AND MINE

WAS FAIRLY MINOR COMPARED

TO WHAT MOST PEOPLE HAVE.

IT WAS RIGHT ABOUT THAT TIME

THAT YOU AND I MET, IN FACT,

BECAUSE I HAD JUST WRITTEN

THE FAITH OF GEORGE W. BUSH

THAT CAME RIGHT ON THE HEELS

OF THAT EXPERIENCE.

I BEGAN TO TRAVEL THE COUNTRY,

TRAVEL THE WORLD SPEAKING

AND LECTURING AND SO ON,

AND THE LORD TOOK ME ON A TOUR

OF CHURCH HURT.

I WOULD BE ON A PLANE AND

THE GUY NEXT TO ME, YOU SAY,

"HELLO! HOW ARE YOU DOING?"

AND THE NEXT THING I KNOW HE'S

TELLING ME ABOUT BEING HURT.

HE DIDN'T KNOW WHO I WAS,

DIDN'T KNOW I'D BEEN A PASTOR.

DIDN'T KNOW

I'D BEEN HURT MYSELF.

IT HAPPENED AT THE VATICAN,

AND WITH THE TROOPS IN IRAQ.

BEFORE LONG, I'M A LITTLE

DULL SPIRITUALLY, BUT AFTER

A WHILE I BEGAN TO REALIZE,

GOD IS TRYING TO SHOW ME

SOMETHING HERE.

IT WAS NOT LONG AFTER THAT

THAT I SPENT SOME TIME

WITH MY FRIEND, GEORGE BARNA

AND HE HAD DONE A SURVEY

THAT INDICATED THAT 40%

OF THE PEOPLE THAT WE CALL

"UNCHURCHED" IN AMERICA

ARE ACTUALLY

EMBITTERED EX-CHURCH.

SO WE CALL THEM UNCHURCHED,

WE THINK THEY'RE UNSAVED.

IN FACT, 40% OF THEM HAVE

GONE TO A CHURCH, BEEN HURT,

AND TONIGHT THEY'LL BE

SITTING IN A BAR

OR SITTING SOMEWHERE MAD

TELLING THEIR STORY AGAIN

TAINTING OTHER PEOPLE

AND THEY'VE BEEN IN

A DOWNWARD SPIRAL EVER SINCE.

I'VE GOT TO TELL YOU,

GOD PUT TREMENDOUS COMPASSION

IN MY HEART FOR THAT GROUP.

I DIDN'T WANT TO WRITE

THE BOOK SO MUCH

TO TELL MY STORY,

BECAUSE MINE IS FAIRLY LIGHT

AND NOT NEARLY AS BAD

AS WHAT SOME PEOPLE ENDURE

BUT I THOUGHT, I DON'T WANT

TO WRITE A BOOK ON TOXIC FAITH

OR DYSFUNCTIONAL CHURCHES,

I WANT TO WRITE A BOOK

THAT JUST REALLY FIRMLY,

LIKE A COACH, BECAUSE THAT'S

WHAT HELPED ME, I CAN TELL

THAT STORY WHEN YOU'RE READY

BUT WHAT HELPED ME WAS SOME

PEOPLE STEPPING INTO MY LIFE

AND SAYING, "LOOK, YOU'RE

IN TROUBLE, WE'RE GOING TO

HELP YOU WHETHER YOU LIKE IT

OR NOT BECAUSE YOU'RE

AN IDIOT, YOU NEED HELP."

I WANTED TO WRITE A BOOK IN

THAT TONE TO PULL PEOPLE OUT

OF THIS DOWNWARD MORAL SPIRAL

-- 40%, MILLIONS OF PEOPLE,

EMBITTERED EX-CHURCH FLOATING

AROUND IN OUR COUNTRY.

James: SO WHAT IS YOUR MAIN

MESSAGE, STEPHEN, TO THEM?

I JUST REFERENCED

THAT PEOPLE HAD LEVELED

SOME PRETTY HARSH STATEMENTS

ABOUT ME AND MY JOURNEY

BECAUSE GOD STRETCHED ME

BEYOND THE SECURE BOUNDARIES

OF MY OWN, LET'S SAY

DENOMINATIONAL FRAMEWORK,

TO JUST REALLY REACH OUT

BEYOND TO EVERYONE.

IT REALLY -- IT WAS LIKE

I'D SUDDENLY BECAME

THE MAJOR COMPROMISER.

I'M LOVING PEOPLE

AND SPENDING TIME WITH PEOPLE

RIGHT NOW THAT MANY CHRISTIANS

ARE REALLY GIVING IT TO ME.

HOW COULD YOU SPEND TIME

WITH SOMEONE THAT MAYBE

IS OF ANOTHER FAITH

OR MAYBE THEY DON'T EVEN

BELIEVE RIGHT, THEY BELIEVE

VERY WRONG ABOUT SOME THINGS;

HOW IS IT THAT YOU

CAN LOVE THEM?

JESUS SAID,

"LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR --

LOVE GOD,

LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR."

HE ALSO SAID,

"LOVE YOUR FRIENDS."

HE EVEN SAID,

"LOVE AND FORGIVE THOSE

WHO SPEAK EVIL OF YOU."

I REALLY FOUND

THAT IN DOING THAT,

NOT ONLY DO I FIND THAT

PEOPLE WILL LISTEN TO ME

WHO WE'VE BEEN TRAINED

TO DISLIKE

AND THEY'VE BEEN TAUGHT

THAT WE'RE THEIR ENEMY,

IT OPENS UP THE DOOR

TO HEAR ME AND

OFTENTIMES OPENS THEIR HEART.

IT SEEMS BOTH OF US GROW

AND WE BEGIN TO MOVE BACK

TOWARD THE STANDARD OF TRUTH

AND LOVE AND LIFE.

DO YOU POINT OUT TO PEOPLE

WHO HAVE BEEN HURT

THE IMPORTANCE OF THEM

BEING ABLE TO SOMEHOW FORGIVE

THOSE WHO MISTREATED THEM?

HOW DO YOU --?

Stephen: I DON'T PUT

FORGIVENESS ON THE FRONT END

BECAUSE I DON'T WANT THEM

TO MOVE TOO QUICKLY

TO FORGIVENESS.

I KNOW THAT SOUNDS ODD,

I WANT THEM TO THINK ABOUT

WHAT THEY'VE EXPERIENCED

A LITTLE BIT.

PART OF THE REASON THAT

CHURCH HURTS HURT SO MUCH

IS THAT WE THINK THE CHURCH

IS HEAVEN -- WE EXPECT IT

TO BE LIKE HEAVEN.

WE FORGET THAT MAN'S FALLEN,

THAT MAN IS GLORIOUS

AND WONDERFUL

AND MADE IN THE IMAGE OF GOD

AND MAN IS ALSO SINFUL,

AND SOMETIMES EVIL,

AND SOMETIMES HAVE

THE CHARACTER OF DEMONS.

AND IF YOU'RE GOING TO BE

IN THE CHURCH, IF YOU'RE

GOING TO BE IN THE WORLD

YOU'RE GOING TO DEAL

WITH HUMAN HURT.

THE BIBLE SAYS YOU MUST GO

THROUGH MANY TROUBLES

TO ENTER THE KINGDOM.

ALL WHO LIVE GODLY

SHALL SUFFER PERSECUTION.

THESE ARE PROMISES WE DON'T

PUT IN OUR PROMISE BOXES

OR WRITE ON OUR REFRIGERATORS

BUT THEY ARE TRUE.

WE JUST NEED TO RECOGNIZE

TO LIVE IN THIS WORLD

MEANS TO BE HURT.

IF A YOUNG MAN WAS SITTING

RIGHT THERE AND HE SAYS,

"I WANT TO BE JAMES ROBISON."

I WOULD SAY TO HIM, "GREAT!

YOU NEED TO LEARN HOW TO PRAY

AND HOW TO PREACH.

YOU NEED TO LEARN

HOW TO RUN AN ORGANIZATION.

BUT LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING,

PEOPLE YOU THINK

SHOULD BE WITH YOU

ARE GOING TO OPPOSE YOU.

THEY WILL TALK ABOUT YOU;

THAT'S WHAT IT MEANS

TO BE IN THE WORLD."

I DON'T WANT TO MAKE PEOPLE

CYNICAL, I WANT THEM TO

LIGHTEN UP AND NOT THINK THAT

THE BASHING THAT THEY'VE TAKEN

FROM CHRISTIANS IS SOME KIND

OF CONSPIRACY AGAINST THEM.

IT'S WHAT IT MEANS TO LIVE

IN A FALLEN WORLD.

PEOPLE DON'T BECOME ANGELS

WHEN THEY GO TO CHURCH,

THEY JUST BRING THEIR STUFF

TO CHURCH TO LET JESUS HEAL;

THEY'VE STILL GOT

THEIR STUFF. RIGHT?

I BEGIN BY TELLING SOME

STORIES ABOUT FOLKS IN HISTORY

LIKE GEORGE WHITFIELD,

AND JONATHAN EDWARDS

AND A LOT OF WELL-KNOWN FOLKS,

EVEN BONO TODAY, SOME OTHER

FOLKS WHO CONFESS CHRIST.

LISTEN, THIS IS WHAT

THEY'VE ALL EXPERIENCED.

SO IF I CAN GET THEM TO

START BY UNDERSTANDING THAT

THERE'S EVIL IN THE WORLD;

GOING TO CHURCH IS NOT GOING

TO CHURCH WITH PERFECT PEOPLE.

THERE'S GOING TO BE

HURTFUL THINGS AND IT MAY

NOT HAVE BEEN ABOUT YOU,

WE AT LEAST GET A START.

THEN I START MOVING THEM

TOWARD FORGIVENESS.

BUT THE THING I WANT THEM

TO DO NEXT IS TO THINK

ABOUT WHAT THEY EXPERIENCED.

WHAT DID YOUR CRITICS SAY

THAT MIGHT BE OF VALUE?

WHAT DID YOU --

WHEN YOU GOT HURT,

WHAT DID YOU REACH FOR?

DID YOU GO FOR THE BOOZE

OR THE PORN

OR THE NINE BAGS OF OREOS?

WHAT WAS IT YOU REACHED FOR?

I THINK ALL THAT IS IMPORTANT.

FOR EXAMPLE, I WAS THE LEADER

OF A PRETTY LARGE CHURCH.

I'D BEEN IN LEADERSHIP

FOR ABOUT 25 YEARS

AT THE TIME IT HAPPENED BUT

SOMEBODY SAID SOMETHING TO ME

AND LORD KNOWS

THEY DID NOT SAY IT

TO HELP ME BE A BETTER LEADER.

BUT THEY SAID,

"I HAVE NEVER FELT IMPORTANT

IN YOUR PRESENCE."

WELL, I WANT TO MOTIVATE

PEOPLE TO CHANGE THE WORLD

SO IF SOMEBODY IS NOT FEELING

IMPORTANT IN MY PRESENCE

I'M DOING SOMETHING WRONG.

WELL, THIS GUY

WAS NOT TRYING TO HELP ME.

BUT LATER, AS I THOUGHT ABOUT

WHAT MY CRITICS HAD SAID,

IT WAS SORT OF LIKE

E. STANLEY JONES SAID,

"LET YOUR CRITICS BE

THE UNPAID GUARDIANS

OF YOUR SOUL."

I WANTED TO LEARN

FROM THAT EXPERIENCE,

I WANTED TO INCORPORATE THAT

AS WISDOM FOR MY LEADERSHIP.

RATHER THAN RUSHING PEOPLE TO

FORGIVENESS WHERE THEY PUT IT

BEHIND THEM AND MOVE ON,

LET'S TAKE A MOMENT, THINK

ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENED,

THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU DID.

DID YOU OVERSTAY YOUR WELCOME?

WHY DID YOU GET HURT?

ANYTHING YOU DID

THAT MAYBE WE CAN DEAL WITH?

WE DON'T WANT TO LIVE IN

GROUNDHOG DAY JUST MOVING FROM

CHURCH TO CHURCH GETTING HURT

AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN.

LET'S ASK OURSELVES

HOW THIS HAPPENED.

THEN WE ARRIVE AT FORGIVENESS.

Betty: WHAT ARE SOME OF THE

THINGS PEOPLE ARE HURT OVER?

SOME OF THEM ARE

PRETTY SERIOUS PROBABLY.

Stephen: THAT'S

A GREAT QUESTION!

LET ME SAY RIGHT UP

FRONT THAT I TAKE THE ISSUE

OF THE HURT SERIOUSLY,

NO MATTER HOW LIGHT IT LOOKS

TO ME BECAUSE THEY ARE HURT

AND THEREFORE THE DAMAGE IS

BEING DONE, THE BITTERNESS

IS WORKING IN THEIR SOUL.

BUT YOU CAN IMAGINE,

I'VE HEARD EVERYTHING FROM,

"I WAS A DEMOCRAT GOING

TO A REPUBLICAN CHURCH."

"I WAS A REPUBLICAN GOING

TO A DEMOCRAT CHURCH."

OR "THE PASTOR SLEPT

WITH MY FAMILY MEMBER."

ALL THE BIG HORRIBLE ONES

ALL THE WAY DOWN TO

"THE WORSHIP TEAM WORE JEANS

AND I DON'T THINK

THEY SHOULD HAVE."

"THEY PAINTED THE PARKING LOT.

I DIDN'T WANT THEM TO."

THAT KIND OF THING.

"THEY MOVED THE PEWS OUT

AND PUT IN CHAIRS."

THE YOUTH MINISTRY

TOOK OVER OUR CHURCH.

THINGS THAT YOU'RE GOING,

WELL, OKAY.

IMPORTANT BUT YOU KNOW WHAT?"

"THEY TOOK DOWN THE CROSS

AND PUT UP A TV SCREEN."

I UNDERSTAND IT IS A SYMBOLIC

THING BUT I TALKED TO PEOPLE

WHO ARE READY TO JUST GO GET

A GUN AND DEAL WITH SOMEBODY

OVER THINGS LIKE THAT.

SO WHAT I LEARNED WAS

THERE'S THE HURT THAT IS

BIG AND UNDERSTANDABLE,

AND THEN THERE'S WHAT I MIGHT

CALL THE ASSUMED HURT,

TAKING UP AN OFFENSE.

I'M MAD BECAUSE

SOMEBODY MISTREATED YOU.

IT DIDN'T HAPPEN TO ME --

I'M JUST MAD.

BUT THE FACT THAT I'M ANGRY,

BITTER, DISTANCING

MYSELF FROM GOD,

NO LONGER ATTENDING CHURCH --

I SAY IN THE BOOK

THAT YOU CAN'T LOVE JESUS

AND MISTREAT HIS BRIDE.

WE WOULD LIKE TO, IF YOU'RE

GOING TO COME INTO MY HOUSE

AND WATCHING FOOTBALL

ON MY TV, SOAKING UP

MY AIR-CONDITIONING,

AND EATING MY FOOD

AND MISTREAT MY WIFE --

THAT'S JUST NOT

GOING TO HAPPEN.

SO WE CAN'T REALLY SAY

WE'RE LOVING JESUS

IF WE HATE HIS BRIDE.

A LOT OF PEOPLE OUT THERE,

BECAUSE OF OFFENSES,

THEY HATE THE BRIDE OF CHRIST

AND WE CAN'T DO THAT.

SO THE SHORT ANSWER

TO YOUR QUESTION

IS EVERY KIND OF REASON

IN THE WORLD AND SOME

I WOULD CALL NOT IMPORTANT,

OTHERS VERY IMPORTANT,

CRIMINAL ALMOST.

BUT THE ISSUE REALLY IS,

WHAT'S THE IMPRINT

LEFT ON THE SOUL?

IF A GUY IS SITTING AT A BAR

TONIGHT ON HIS FIFTH WHISKY

MAD AND TELLING THE BARTENDER

HOW HORRIBLE THE CHURCH IS

AND IT WAS ABOUT PAINTING THE

PARKING LOT, WELL, IT STILL

HAS HAD AN EFFECT ON HIM.

MY APPROACH TO HIM IS NOT TO

SAY, "THIS ISN'T IMPORTANT."

MY POINT IS TO SAY,

"YOU'RE BITTER, YOU'RE ANGRY,

YOU GRIEVE THE HOLY SPIRIT,

YOU'RE CUT OFF FROM GOD,

LET ME COACH YOU BACK

TO SOME WHOLENESS HERE."

THAT'S MY WHOLE POINT.

Betty: DO YOU THINK

SOME PEOPLE LOOK FOR SOMETHING

TO BE ANGRY OR HURT ABOUT

SO IT GIVES THEM AN EXCUSE

FOR THEIR LIFESTYLE

OR WHAT'S GOING ON?

Stephen: ABSOLUTELY.

I THINK WE HAVE

EXPERIENCES IN LIFE

THAT BECOME OFFENSE MAGNETS

AND THEY JUST DRAW THEM.

I USE THE ILLUSTRATION

OF PEOPLE PUTTING ON

VELCRO CLOTHES.

MAN, IF YOU ARE WEARING

A SUIT OF VELCRO

YOU WILL ATTRACT STUFF.

PEOPLE GO INTO A CHURCH

AND IF THEY'RE IN

A CERTAIN CONDITION OF HEART,

IF THEY REALLY DON'T WANT TO

DEAL WITH WHAT THE HOLY SPIRIT

IS PRESSING INTO THEIR LIFE

OR WHATEVER, WHO KNOWS,

MAYBE THEIR WIFE MADE THEM GO

OR SOMETHING.

OH, YOU CAN FIND EVERY REASON

IN THE WORLD,

THE PASTOR HAS A FACIAL TIC

WHEN HE PREACHES;

LIKE I HAVE WEIRD MANNERISMS

WHEN I PREACH.

OR THE... WHO KNOWS?

"THE USHER DIDN'T SAY, 'HI!' "

YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING

WHERE THERE IS THREE MENTIONS

OF MONEY AND NOT JUST ONE;

ALL THE THINGS IN THE WORLD

THAT FOLKS CAN BE MAD ABOUT.

I KNOW ONE GUY WHO WENT

TO FOUR DIFFERENT CHURCHES

AND THE SERMONS,

THE KEY SCRIPTURE

AT ALL FOUR SERMONS

WAS THE SAME SCRIPTURE.

YOU KNOW THE HOLY SPIRIT

IS FOLLOWING YOU FROM CHURCH

TO CHURCH WHEN IT IS THE

SAME SCRIPTURE EVERY TIME.

HE DIDN'T GET IT.

HE WOULD GET MAD; THINK THEY

WERE TALKING ABOUT HIM AT

SOME PASTOR'S MEETING IN TOWN.

PASTORS DON'T EVEN

TALK TO EACH OTHER.

[Laughter]

THE POINT IS PEOPLE GO

TO CHURCH AND START LOOKING.

IT'S A ROOM FULL OF SINNERS.

MY GOODNESS, IT IS A ROOM

FULL OF STRANGE PEOPLE.

BECAUSE I'VE BEEN WORKING

WITH PEOPLE IN THIS REGARD,

I'VE HAD PEOPLE SAY TO ME,

"MAN, THE CHURCH

IS FULL OF WEIRD PEOPLE."

WELL, LET'S GO DOWN

TO MCDONALD'S.

LET'S GO DOWN TO THE Y --

James: GO TO THE STATE FAIR.

Stephen: OH, MY GOODNESS!

LET'S GO TO WAL-MART AT 10:00

OR AT MIDNIGHT OR WHATEVER.

James: OR A BALL GAME

OR SPORTING EVENT.

Stephen: SIN HAS MADE US

ALL A LITTLE WEIRD.

I'VE JUST GOT TO LEARN TO

LOVE YOU IN YOUR WEIRDNESS

AND YOU'VE GOT TO LOVE ME

IN MY WEIRDNESS.

IF YOU'RE MAD ALL THE TIME

AND NOT WANTING TO HAVE

ANYBODY WEIRD IN YOUR LIFE

YOU'LL BE LIVING ON A MOUNTAIN

SOMEWHERE IN A CABIN BY

YOURSELF, AND THAT'S THE WAY

A LOT OF PEOPLE GO TO CHURCH.

YOU WILL FIND SOMETHING

TO BE OFFENDED ABOUT.

James: WHEN WE OPENED

THE PROGRAM I WAS TALKING

ABOUT KNOWING THAT PEOPLE

HAD SAID THINGS

THAT COULD HURT.

IF WE LOOK BACK AT WHAT

I SAID AT THE VERY BEGINNING

THAT THE FIRST THING I DID,

AND I REALLY APPRECIATE

THE DIRECTION YOU TOOK

BECAUSE I'M LOOKING BACK

BECAUSE I KNEW GOD GAVE ME

SO MUCH LOVE FOR THESE PEOPLE,

AND SO MUCH FORGIVENESS

BUT WHERE I STARTED

AND WHAT I ACTUALLY SAID WAS,

I FIRST LOOKED AT MYSELF AND

SAID, "AM I SAYING SOMETHING

IN A WAY THAT IS NOT

BEING UNDERSTOOD OR MAYBE

I'M EXPRESSING MYSELF

IN A WAY THAT IS OFFENSIVE?

AND SO I FIRST EXAMINED MYSELF

AND I REALLY THINK

THAT WOULD BE A GOOD PLACE

FOR ALL THE PEOPLE

WHO HAVE BEEN HURT TO START

BECAUSE THERE ARE PEOPLE

EVERYWHERE WHO CAN HURT US.

I WALK IN THE CHURCHES

AND I GO TO SO MANY.

FIFTY YEARS OF MINISTRY,

YOU'VE BEEN TO A LOT

OF CHURCHES AND I'VE BEEN

PROBABLY IN AS MANY AND

PREACHED TO AS MANY PEOPLE

AS ANYBODY ON THE PLANET.

BUT WHAT I DO IS I GO IN

AND I REALLY FIND MYSELF

CONCERNED ABOUT THE PEOPLE

THAT ARE HURT.

I FIND MYSELF CONCERNED

ABOUT THE PEOPLE

WHO ARE HURTING PEOPLE

AND I JUST CARE.

ALL OF THE SUDDEN, IT IS LIKE

YOUR WHOLE WORLDVIEW CHANGES

TO WHERE YOU JUST LOVE

EVERYBODY BECAUSE I JUST

FIND SO MANY PEOPLE

THAT I KNOW DISAGREE WITH ME

AND I DISAGREE WITH THEM

AND CERTAINLY, I MUST BE RIGHT

AND THEY MUST BE WRONG.

BUT THE POINT IS, IF I'M

EVER GOING TO DO ANYTHING

TO CORRECT ANYTHING THAT

IS WRONG AND MAKE IT RIGHT,

I'VE GOT TO HAVE A DISCERNMENT

OF LOVE AND CARE THAT SAYS,

"I DON'T KNOW WHERE YOU'VE

BEEN BUT I CARE ABOUT WHERE

YOU'VE BEEN AND WHERE YOU ARE.

LET'S GO SOMEWHERE TOGETHER

THAT'S POSITIVE."

I HEAR THIS IS WHAT

YOU'RE SAYING BECAUSE

I KNOW YOU, STEPHEN,

I'VE WATCHED YOU

ON YOUR JOURNEY,

I'VE WATCHED YOU GROW,

I'VE WATCHED YOU CARE

ABOUT PEOPLE OF A DIFFERENT

STRIPE OR A DIFFERENT BELIEF

AND YOU WANT TO BRING OUT

THE BEST.

YOU WANT TO BE

A BRIDGE BUILDER.

TO ME, THAT'S THE TESTIMONY

OF SOMEBODY THAT'S

BEING HEALED FROM HURT

AND YOU'RE TAKING THE JOURNEY

YOU'RE INVITING PEOPLE ON.

Stephen: THAT'S WHY

I WANT THESE PEOPLE BACK.

I WANT THIS 40% OF THE

UNCHURCHED OUT THERE BACK

BECAUSE YOU KNOW HOW IT IS.

WHEN SOMEBODY IS REBUILT,

WHEN THEY'RE HEALED AND

BROUGHT BACK, YOU KNOW FROM

YOUR BACKGROUND IN SPORTS

WHEN YOU HAVE A BROKEN BONE

AND IT HEALS, IT IS STRONGER

WHERE IT'S HEALED

THAN IT WAS BEFORE.

THESE PEOPLE HAVE TALENTS AND

ABILITIES, AND THEY WILL HAVE

PATIENCE AND TEMPERED NATURE

AND A CHARACTER THAT WE NEED.

WE'RE A LITTLE BIT STRANGE.

WE TALK ABOUT LET'S GO OUT

AND GET THE GREAT UNWASHED.

LET'S GO REACH THE LOST.

LET'S GO REACH PEOPLE

IN THE BARS,

PEOPLE HAVING TROUBLE.

THEN WE'VE GOT

TROUBLED PEOPLE IN CHURCH

AND THEN WE'RE MAD AT THEM.

IT'S OUR MINISTRY

TO GET MAD AT FOLKS.

I WANT THESE PEOPLE HEALED UP

AND BACK, NOT JUST BECAUSE,

HEY, WE'VE GOT TO GET THEM

BACK IN THE SAME CHURCH AND

THEY'VE GOT TO RECONCILE --

THAT'S NOT THE POINT.

THE POINT IS THAT THESE PEOPLE

ARE CALLED AND THEY'RE GIFTED.

THE REALITY IS

MOST OF THE PEOPLE

WE'RE TRYING TO REACH TODAY

HAVE GOT SOME CHURCH OFFENSE.

I'M ASKING GEORGE BARNA

TO THINK ABOUT THIS.

NOT ONLY DO WE HAVE 40%

OF THAT UNCHURCHED POPULATION

THAT HAVE BEEN TO CHURCH

AND HAVE BEEN HURT, WE'VE

GOT PEOPLE WHO HAVE NEVER

SET FOOT INSIDE A CHURCH,

TURN ON THIS SHOW, TURN ON

WHO KNOWS WHOEVER IS ON TV,

CHARLES STANLEY OR ANYBODY

AND JUST GET MAD

AT WHO KNOWS WHAT?

THE FACT THAT I'M SAYING

WHAT I'M SAYING RIGHT NOW.

WELL, NOW WE'VE GOT

ANOTHER 20% OR 30% WHO ARE MAD

THAT WILL NEVER DARKEN

THE DOOR OF A CHURCH.

SO MOST OF THEM ARE MAD

AT SOME RELIGIOUS FIGURE

OF SOME KIND, SOMEWHERE,

OR CHRISTIAN FIGURE.

GOSH, I WANT THEM BACK.

I WANT THEM HEALED.

I WANT THEM RESTORED.

I DON'T WANT THEM DRINKING

THEMSELVES INTO OBLIVION.

I WANT THEM WITH US.

James: WE'VE GOT TO GET HEALED

IN THIS AREA AND THAT'S WHAT

STEPHEN IS TALKING ABOUT.

I HIGHLY RECOMMEND THE BOOK.

DO YOU APPRECIATE THE

INSIGHTS STEPHEN HAS SHARED?

YOU'RE A GREAT WRITER AND HAVE

COMMUNICATED A GREAT TRUTH.

I JUST SAY TO YOU, IF YOU'D

LIKE TO HAVE THE BOOK,

MAYBE YOU EXPERIENCED SOME

OF THE HURT AND YOU DON'T

LIKE LIVING IN THAT HURT

AND YOU'D LIKE TO HAVE SOME

INSPIRATION AND INSIGHT,

WE'LL GLADLY SEND IT TO YOU.

WOULD YOU CONSIDER THIS?

WOULD YOU HELP US DO SOMETHING

VERY, VERY IMPORTANT?

AS IMPORTANT AS ANYTHING

WE DO TO DEMONSTRATE

THE LOVE OF GOD,

THE COMPASSION OF CHRIST,

AND THE FACT THAT WE CARE

AND THAT LOVE CAN MAKE ALL

THE DIFFERENCE IN YOUR WORLD?

I WANT YOU TO WATCH THIS.

I CAN'T DESCRIBE

HOW THIS MOVED ME.

WATCH CLOSELY.

James: BETTY AND I WATCHED

A MOTHER NAMED PICH LOSE

ONE OF HER LITTLE BABIES,

HER CHILDREN AND NOW SHE HAD

ANOTHER ONE SHE DIDN'T KNOW

IF SHE WAS GOING TO LOSE HIM.

WHEN BETTY AND I SAW IT,

WE SAID WE'RE GOING TO DRILL

A WELL FOR HER VILLAGE.

WE'RE GOING TO PAY THE WHOLE

WELL FOR THAT VILLAGE.

IT IS $4800;

THAT'S THE AVERAGE COST.

WE STARTED ASKING GOD

YEARS AGO,

PROBABLY 20 YEARS AGO,

WELLS FOR $3600 AT THAT TIME.

I DON'T KNOW HOW LONG

THEY'LL STAY $4800 BUT THAT

IS STILL THE AVERAGE NOW.

WITH THE RISING

PETROLEUM COSTS, I DON'T

KNOW HOW LONG IT WILL STAY.

BUT WE SAID, "LORD, WE WOULD

LIKE TO DRILL A WELL."

WE ASKED GOD -- I CAN'T

TELL YOU HOW HE BLESSED US,

JUST THE BLESSING OF DOING IT.

IT WOULDN'T HAVE MATTERED

WHAT WE HAD TO DO TO DO IT

BUT THE WAY HE BLESSES

TO ENABLE US TO KEEP DOING IT

AND NOW THAT, AND I'VE GOT

TO BE HONEST, BETTY,

I ALMOST FIND MYSELF SAYING,

"BOY, I JUST WANT TO

DO ANOTHER ONE RIGHT NOW."

BUT HERE'S WHAT I FEEL

I'M SUPPOSED TO SAY,

I THINK THERE IS

SOMEBODY WATCHING WHO SAID,

"I CAN COVER THAT VILLAGE

AND MAYBE ONE NEXT TO IT."

OR SOME OF YOU SAY, "I THINK

THAT MOTHER IS REPRESENTING

A LOT OF VILLAGES."

WE'VE ALREADY TARGETED 350;

I WISH IT WOULD BE 550.

I PRAY TODAY,

"GOD, BEFORE I DIE,

AS LONG AS I'M ON THIS EARTH,

WOULD YOU LET ME LIVE TO SEE

THAT I CAN HELP INSPIRE

FRESH CLEAN WATER

TO EVERY VILLAGE

AND EVERY PERSON

ON THIS PLANET?"

THAT'S A DREAM --

THAT'S A DESIRE --

I BELIEVE IT IS GOD'S DESIRE.

WHAT DO YOU FEEL

WHEN YOU SEE THAT?

Betty: AS I LISTENED TO HER,

HER PLEA WAS,

"MOTHERS... OTHER MOTHERS,

HELP ME HELP MY BABY."

SHE'S LOST ONE CHILD.

CHILDREN ARE SO DEAR

TO THE HEART OF MOTHERS.

WE FEEL THEIR PAIN.

AND I CAN'T EVEN IMAGINE,

JAMES, AS SHE HAD TO WATCH

HER BABY DIE LIKE THAT

SIMPLY BECAUSE

THEY HAD DIRTY WATER.

NOW SHE'S GOT HER OTHER CHILD

SHE'S AFRAID FOR.

SHE DOESN'T WANT

TO LOSE THIS BABY.

WE CAN HELP.

WE CAN REACH OUT

AND MAKE THAT DIFFERENCE.

JAMES, I KNOW MY HEART

IS WITH YOURS, I WANT TO HELP

THIS MOTHER BUT THERE ARE SO

MANY MORE MOTHERS THAT NEED

OUR HELP WITH THEIR CHILDREN.

PLEASE HELP US DRILL

THE WATER WELLS!

James: THE WAY WE MEET

THE NEED IS EACH ONE OF US

DO WHAT WE CAN.

NOT EVERYONE CAN DRILL A WELL.

IF YOU CAN I BELIEVE YOU WILL.

DIAL THE NUMBER, TAKE YOUR

BANKCARD, USE IT LIKE A CHECK

AND SAY, "HERE'S THE WELL."

OR WRITE A CHECK, MAKE IT

TO LIFE, CALL US AND TELL US

IT'S IN THE MAIL.

GO ONLINE, LifeToday.org

AND SAY, "HERE IT IS.

BOY, I REJOICE, I CAN DO IT!"

REMEMBER THIS, SOMETIMES

YOU SAY, "I CAN'T DO THAT."

WELL, WHAT CAN YOU DO?

COULD YOU GIVE $1200 AND PRAY

THREE PEOPLE JOIN YOU OR $2400

AND PRAY ONE PERSON JOINS?

OR COULD YOU GIVE $48

DURING THIS LAST WEEK

TO COMPLETE

THE TARGETED 350 WELLS?

COULD YOU SAY, "I'LL GIVE $48

AND GIVE TEN PEOPLE WATER?"

-- TEN CHILDREN LIKE

SHE WAS REFERRING TO?

$48 WILL DO THAT.

$144 WILL GIVE

30 PEOPLE WATER.

WOULD YOU DO THAT? PLEASE?

RIGHT NOW,

I KNOW YOU'RE PRAYING

BUT WOULD YOU PUT FEET

TO THE PRAYERS AND WOULD YOU

BE AN ANSWER TO HER PRAYER

AND HER HEART CRY?

WOULD YOU DIAL THE NUMBER

PLEASE OR GONE ONLINE

AND MAKE THE GIFT?

WE HAVE SOME GIFTS TO

SEND YOU TO SAY THANK YOU.

PLEASE MAKE THAT GIFT.

FATHER, YOU MOVE

AND AS YOU MOVE

ON THE HEARTS OF THE VIEWERS

AND THE LISTENERS,

HELP THEM TO SIMPLY OBEY

YOUR LOVING VOICE

AND YOUR DIRECTION

IN JESUS' NAME.

HE ALWAYS BLESSES US

WHEN WE BLESS OTHERS.

THANK YOU FOR MAKING THE CALL.

SHOULD YOU GET A BUSY,

THAT'S A GOOD SIGN,

THAT MEANS SOMEBODY ELSE

IS TRYING TO GET THROUGH TOO.

YOU BE DETERMINED,

CALL UNTIL YOU GET THROUGH.

THANK YOU FOR MAKING THE GIFT.

Announcer: EVERY DAY MILLIONS OF CHILDREN

ARE FORCED TO MAKE A DREADFUL CHOICE,

DRINK FILTHY POLLUTED WATER FILLED WITH DEADLY DISEASE

OR DIE FROM THIRST.

NO CHILD SHOULD EVER BE FACED WITH THIS DECISION!

THE GOOD NEWS IS THERE IS A SOLUTION!

MISSION: WATER FOR LIFE

IS ONE OF THE MOST EXCITING AND VIABLE DEMONSTRATIONS

OF GOD'S LOVE IN THE WORLD TODAY.

SUFFERING CAN END

BECAUSE CLEAN WATER CHANGES EVERYTHING!

WITH YOUR GIFT TODAY, WE CAN ESTABLISH

AND DRILL 350 NEW WATER WELLS

FOR REMOTE VILLAGES IN 12 DIFFERENT NATIONS.

YOUR GIFT OF $24

WILL HELP PROVIDE CLEAN WATER FOR FIVE PEOPLE!

A GIFT OF $48 WILL HELP PROVIDE FOR 10 PEOPLE.

$72 WILL IMPACT 15 PEOPLE.

AND $144 WILL HELP PROVIDE FRESH, CLEAN,

DISEASE-FREE WATER

FOR 30 PEOPLE FOR A LIFETIME!

WITH YOUR GIFT BE SURE TO REQUEST ARISE,

A BEAUTIFUL NEW DAILY DEVOTIONAL

FEATURING WORDS OF ENCOURAGEMENT FROM INSPIRING WOMEN

WHO HAVE SHARED THEIR FAITH ON LIFE TODAY.

WITH YOUR GIFT OF $100 OR MORE,

YOU MAY REQUEST THE ARISE AUDIO VISUAL DEVOTIONAL

FEATURING 40 DAYS OF INSPIRATION

FROM LIFE TODAY'S FAVORITE WOMEN GUESTS.

PLEASE PRAYERFULLY CONSIDER A GIFT OF $1200

TO HELP PROVIDE WATER FOR 250 PEOPLE

OR A GIFT OF $4800

TO HELP SPONSOR A COMPLETE WELL.

AND BE SURE TO REQUEST THE 2012 COMMEMORATIVE BRONZE SCULPTURE,

"THE LION AND THE LAMB."

THIS IS THE LAST WEEK! CALL, WRITE, OR MAKE YOUR GIFT ONLINE TODAY!

James: I WANT TO THANK YOU

SO MUCH FOR YOUR HELP.

I WANT TO MENTION SOMETHING.

I BELIEVE GOD HAS BLESSED

AMERICA FOR A REASON.

WE WROTE

THE FOUNDATIONAL PRINCIPLES

THAT WE MUST RETURN TO

WITH UNDERSTANDING

IN THE BOOK, INDIVISIBLE.

IT'S NOW AVAILABLE IN

PAPERBACK SO YOU COULD PERHAPS

GET COPIES FOR FRIENDS.

WE'RE ALSO SENDING WITH IT,

THE CHRISTIAN VOTE PIN,

TWO OF THEM.

BY THE WAY,

THE ABRAHAM LINCOLN QUOTE IN

REFERENCE TO GOD AND PRAYER,

AND FALSE ASSUMPTIONS --

ABSOLUTELY INCREDIBLE!

WE'RE SENDING THIS

JUST TO SAY THANK YOU.

AND IF YOU WANT TO GO ONLINE

TO LifeToday.org AND JUST SAY,

"YOU KNOW WHAT I'D LIKE TO

HAVE THOSE VOTE PINS BECAUSE

I WANT TO ENCOURAGE CHRISTIANS

TO PRAY AND VOTE

AND PARTICIPATE, AND I'D LIKE

TO HAVE INDIVISIBLE."

REMEMBER ALSO, IF YOU SAY,

"I WANT TO GET STEPHEN'S BOOK,

HEALING YOUR CHURCH HURT."

WELL, WE'LL SEND IT

TO YOU TODAY.

IF YOU ASK FOR IT,

SAY, "I'D LIKE TO HAVE IT

AND I'M HELPING YOU

PROVIDE THAT WATER."

JOIN BETTY AND ME HERE IN

THE AUDIENCE SAY THANKS AGAIN

TO STEPHEN MANSFIELD.

THANK YOU, STEPHEN!

ALWAYS A JOY TO SEE YOU.

I APPRECIATE YOU VERY MUCH!

THANK ALL OF YOU SO MUCH

FOR WATCHING.

AND AGAIN, THANK YOU FOR

YOUR SUPPORT AND YOUR PRAYERS.

LET'S PRAY FOR OUR COUNTRY!

Announcer: FAITH, FAMILY, AND FREEDOM ARE UNDER ATTACK.

JAMES ROBISON AND JAY RICHARDS ENCOURAGE A DIVIDED AMERICA

TO STAND TOGETHER BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE.

INDIVISIBLE, NOW AVAILABLE IN PAPERBACK

AT ONLINE AND RETAIL BOOKSTORES.

Announcer: TOMORROW, COMEDIAN JOHN GRAY

GIVES HIS SPIN ON LOVE, LIFE, RACE, AND FAMILY.

WHAT IS "TIME OUT"? WE GOT KNOCKED OUT.